Dr. Tom Trimble Spent 10 Years Studying Tech... What He Realized is Shocking

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In this episode of the Christian Leader Made Simple Show, Dr. Tom Trimble joins Ryan Franklin to unpack his book Digital Dominion. Together they explore how technology, especially smartphones and social media, is shaping our minds, families, and faith in ways we often don’t notice. From powerful personal stories to the STAIRS framework, Dr. Trimble offers biblical wisdom and practical steps for keeping technology a tool for the Kingdom rather than a trap for the soul. This conversation will challenge you to reclaim your time, refocus your relationships, and live under God’s dominion in a digital world.

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Transcript

What I mean literally is people will ask AI how to be saved instead of looking to the word of God. Oh, we gotta, we gotta watch our young people listen. Let's teach biblical principles. Because AI does not have enough apostolic input yet, or maybe never will, to give us an accurate answer about how we should treat our brother.

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And now let's get to our session.

Welcome to the Christian Leader Made Simple Show. I'm your host, Ryan Franklin, and on the show today we have a very timely and important conversation. We're talking about the digital world today. We'll talk about how it impacts our lives, our families, and even our faith.

And joining me today for the conversation is Dr. Tom Trimble. He's author of a brand new book called digital dominion. Dr. Trimble has been the Senior Pastor of Restoration Church of St. Charles, Missouri for over 20 years. And during that time he earned his doctorate in Strategic leadership where he focused deeply on the intersection of faith and digital communication, such a needed subject for this day and age.

So welcome to the show, Dr. Trimble.

It's great to be here, Ryan. I'M glad we're doing this and I just like you personally, so it's fun to have a conversation with you no matter the topic. But this is such a timely and a needed subject and one we don't talk about much as the church. I'm glad we're diving into this today. I really am.

Thanks for having me.

I would agree with you and I greatly appreciate your time and being willing to come on and unpack this, unpack your book and this subject. But before we do that, I hear that you are a coffee fanatic and I was just curious. What's, what's your favorite coffee?

Oh my goodness. A cappuccino with non fat milk and one stevia. I'm pretty simple. But that's.That, that is the,is the fuel that I go on that and Jesus and,and I'm good.I really,I would assume that's what got you through your doctorate degree and all of the schooling that you've done.Oh,I’m telling you,many,many all nighters with that.But my wheelhouse is after 10 o'clock.So I'm a nocturnal guy.I get more done when the phones stop ringing,you know.Are you a morning person?Are you a morning person?

I'm much more,much more of a morning person than an evening person.I try to go to bed at a decent time,get up early,and I'm most productive with study and research and things of that nature.In the morning.

Well,when I've recorded musical projects and stuff,I like to start around 10 o'clock at night.And.You artsy people,you artsy people usually are night owls.So I can definitely understand that.Guilty as church.But you have to admit the phones do not ring at that time of the night.And so I can get a lot done between 10 and 2 in the morning,and I get up when I have to early.That’s not a problem.But my preference is to get a lot of work done when people are not as much or I should say things are not interrupting so much now.You'd know.You do know in the digital world there is a thing called do not disturb,right?

Yes.And I need to use that much more.I'm just.Yeah,you know how it is.People,I mean,we're diving off into it,but communication is asynchronous.But anymore if you don't respond to the text within two hours you're no longer a friend.Oh,you'll,you'll definitely,you'll get,you'll get.I don't know what'll happen to you,but it won't be good.You'll get a demerit or something.It’s something for sure.

Well let's get into this.You wrote a book called Digital Dominion.I've got a copy of it right here.And I just want to say this is probably one of the nicest looking books that I have seen in awhile.I love the COVID of it,love the colors,the creativity behind it.Were you the mastermind behind the.Behind that cover?

You know,the concept was mine.My good friend David Fuller helped design it.But there's a lot of stuff to unpack because in the book on the COVID we couldn't figure out what to put on the phone.Because apps will date the COVID Right.Because change.And actually,the phone will actually date the COVID as well.It’s true,it’s true.But we had kind of happy accident.When he dropped image hand holding smartphone background image just automatically came through.And that was kind happy accident because background image has road leading who knows where which metaphorical about digital direction we're going.Yeah.And so digital.It was just sharp sharp cover.Go ahead.What were gonna say?

Yeah,and it's peaceful cover.So that's goal,is find peace in our digital communication.And that's something we don't have right now.There’s something in that.And don’t want go down rabbit trail just yet,because want ask why subject general why Digital Dominion general.

You know years ago,and this like ten year project.I started working on it in my master's program.So this interesting because my bachelor's theology,my master's Christian ministry,my doctorate strategic leadership.But in my doctorate did individual concentration which meant could choose four semesters myself.I customized it,and really wanted do kind deeper dive media ecology,and they didn’t offer anything like Regent University where attended.So did myself.Did two semesters self study research deep dive into through my master's through my doctorate here's what bothered Ryan.What.What are doing about this?We treat our digital lives separately from our Christian life.We.We.This metaphor kept coming me.We're like fish does not see water swimming So we're Just taking things granted America rule historically embraces technological change total optimism they do realize happening process.If told people massive change would occur they would not probably believed So it's been kind frog kettle kind thing don't think?

Absolutely.And so would say interest topic particularly did dissertation all because As church,we're frog pot,in sense landscape changing so much would assume feel though little bit behind regard least attention Oh goodness.Well stat I'll throw out just came Jonathan Haidt wrote book Anxious Generation which New York Times bestseller People finally paying attention But I'll intersection want discover subject But wrote recently average young person spend twenty five years life smartphone twenty five years life Wow Now now That's That's not exaggeration That's truth And And stats finally coming mental health issues come There's much Why church Why paying attention This affects deeply levels existence really does Does have anything reason use word dominion title book That's strong biblical word something book But want listeners hear How connect original calling Genesis way technology taken dominion lives today Well abdicated surrendered That's hyperbole given What mean What mean mean smartphones rule Okay goes back whole Marshall McLuhan Neil Postman idea But And And There's sociological almost anthropological part But because not paid attention ruled instead ruling And that's mean dominion take back control And let start Ryan I'm Luddite believe should rid technology believe I'm rid smartphone I'm rid iPad point Point handle going lose control entirely especially kids next generation if going spend twenty five years phone doing about teaching anything concerned affecting walk God talking bad things Internet obvious challenges content But here's main points book Marshall McLuhan phrase medium message He's one started with Obviously not think claimed Christian social critic professor meant when built trains America didn't matter trains hauling chickens bicycles fact put rails middle America changed everything America fact railways came through didn't matter weather traveled states traveled fact trains changed shop groceries changed jobs changed technology Technology changed lives then then I'll say calls extensions man Neil Postman's part okay go into point Neil Postman's idea change additive ecological foundation started introduction book change ecological uses metaphor Well use metaphor dog dog Yeah What kind dog Have schnauzer Wow love dog Sometimes That's funny Okay Didn't expect question Oh wow Well let tell something When get dog don't life plus dog Right Right When get dog changes routine changes feed dog take dog out vacation figure going find pet friendly hotels going ask somebody take care dog gone changes family holidays bringing dog friend's house family's house going dog changes every changes every Part life changes family photos lot people think lot longer getting dog getting smartphone So smartphones technology Neil Postman's part point says like adding drop red food coloring beaker water don't beaker water plus drop red drop water changes every molecule beaker So smartphones changed everything It's changed everything It's changed calendar changed banking changed family time changed communication changed church time changed every Every single part It's changed walk God Yeah there's doubt ever text middle prayer time For sure Unfortunately try Do disturb Yeah ever answered text middle Excuse God Someone's important here lost phone challenge That's point changed existentially actually biological self digital self well Now prime example mean sitting chair right now digital presence well average average one two year old already online presence So going How going guide going ignore pretend twenty five years Is needs direction going think critically about going An existence performance Because social media instance performance art degree Okay Yeah paying attention performing being conformed image Christ think that's really biggest question Are allowing shape something less godly allowing help become godly become useful kingdom God And I'd like route talk types things want back minute talk late son Anthony During battle cancer made pretty profound observation included book smartphones Can share said important Sure very poignant called day said dad want include book nearing end very difficult time Said son glad Tell mind literally point shortened life choose leaving whom said amazing spend much time devices spend much time nobody wants phone end attention pay absorption being eating time nobody even wants gadget meaningless nobody's going fight smartphone Wow said really need figure important tear voice said thought look mortality face brings clarity No doubt thinking mind saying mortality brings clarity love way put Well let jump chapter relationships end trading meaningful relationships relationships way further down sphere influence connection sociology some different kinds social capital top level social capital friends family close friends immediate family close friends Right see happening restaurant walk family five five people sitting communicating people way list social capital bridging social capital bonding social capital people call need prayer two morning mean communicating people really lot times don't matter ignoring closest relationships sitting table happens happens spouses sitting across each other sat office years ago young man going divorce said well tell normal evening house said home work sit opposite sides living room social media together even own thing across each other Sherry Turkle wrote book aptly entitled Alone Together essentially alone together happens enormous amount time come many statistics nowadays finally figuring reason wrote book tell us Did saw statistic recently out adults never marry staggering Wow know think lot things changed perfect storm maybe COVID Me movement digital communication smartphones social media promised connect people keep promise made people isolated Yeah quote quote many articles book one article called Facebook making lonely Yes making lonely promises connection delivers isolation bottom line say book Prioritize presence Yeah Talk person sitting across Put phone Put phone away talked Connie Bernard good Would say simplistic form answer prioritize relationships closest Put phone down Put technology away simplest form know terribly easy times many things coming world simplistic form solution Absolutely Well saying throw away Cal Newport written Digital Minimalism books latest books latest think World Without Email best selling New York Times author doesn't social media account Interesting talks using smartphone schedule face face good use Pick phone hey let's coffee thinking own coaching community little hundred people coaching community online meet zoom week talk interact forums tremendous use technology build key person's life purpose entire thing grow productive relationships life better rhythm life understand better regulate better ultimately build productive relationships leadership relationships personal relationships using electronic method people's lives help change present relationship life leadership relationships whatnot make sense Sure Absolutely even doing utilizing technology positive purpose bring couldn't done years ago exactly right tension right tension Yes intentional use technology right Yeah flip side handled chapter self control realize attention economy selling attention second Okay buying attention second one things quote book say buying product product paying product product scrolling scrolling Everybody understands YouTube changed search video next queued automatically automatically design hacked psyche Okay developers hacked psyche let back fact many people know developers wouldn't let children technology Steve Jobs didn't kid iPad popular school Silicon Valley right school allows tech Why want kids creative want kids artistic want kids think logically know head find phone creating generation people don't know much know find obviously self control huge part one writer said maybe Cal Newport's book one writer said tell everybody reach phone between 5 5:30 Monday Friday want talk call 5:00 clock 5:30 weekday talk phone drive time home work pushes text messages says live conversation intentional understand great work world understand lot us use technology single day jobs ministry evenings communicating ministry Leaders volunteers giving life energy respond boundaries boundaries right Can ask question Yeah true totally agree anxiety another chapter book whole FOMO thing everybody fear missing Here's suggestion people house say set phones aside set timer twenty minutes twenty minutes check make sure need respond anything maybe thirty minutes maybe certain maybe two hours maybe two hours Okay schedule time still seen responsive get even person schedules phone calls 5 o'clock working technology day long sure prioritizing voice phone call higher form communication texting forth constantly people learned rhythm intentional put self control like say daughter sleeps phone another room husband's neurologist concern there's time schedule bought dumb car funny bought car twenty years old got little convertible 2005 digital detox vehicle car can't hear anybody top doesn't Bluetooth brother said oh man could latest stereo system everything look stock old Mercedes Benz hardtop convertible SL 500 oldest brother owned owned fun car unreachable twenty minute drive check phone got CD magazine seat listening music good time top might turn write song goodness sake used write songs car turned phone booth while anyway digital detox time find way unplug even thirty Minutes think key key figure unplug guy mentioned earlier 5 5:30 phone calls shut phone guess getting car driving unreachable time maybe setting timer family saying hey phone forty five minutes hour dinner conversations think key mind able put down invest important relationships life spouse kids ministry leader sitting office can't sit office good conversation ministry leader picking phone answering text wrong Would agree Yeah can't Bible study somebody taking six different messages middle priorities wrong mentioned dinner book mention average seven information streams coming every family dinner America Seven information streams trying eat dinner together Dinner kids home special time go day Put phone room suggested phone free zone maybe living room phone free zone come leave phone come talk sweet Can go stairs framework love wanted ask Tell stairs I'll Go whatever cover whatever want but book feel like if feel like cover six areas least handle walk God pertains digital life said earlier intersection goal book meet intersection sociology technology theology opened book story Christmas lights people coming house Christmas time putting Christmas lights midnight Okay only time had People coming Sunday night Saturday night midnight wheelhouse right wife wife even stringing down down rail archway done turn lights beautiful beautiful white lights finally look ready Christmas lo behold porch light goes world hate fix problem another pops beautifully lit porch light right door fumble keys adequate lighting went holidays way ideal weeks Christmas New Year's left weeks New Year's unplugged lights start take minute unplugged porch light came realized oh goodness dust dawn light said yeah yeah felt crazy dumb moment moment stood porch laugh ourselves think problem looked digital communication angles left God conversation believe left God conversation effort book meet intersection sociology technology theology unique blend sure heard talked past anyone else Well problem separate think try solve without considering God thinks digital communication know well say things online never say person Right People say things text disembodied looking face Cherry Turkle would say lost empathy wrote book called Reclaiming Conversation People Lost important parts book whole stairs Let go stairs Self control Theology communication Anxiety identity relationships spirituality Go little bit slower Self control Okay Self control gotta gotta self control tech control Okay can't let hack psyche control algorithms That's end scrolling phone two hours supposed Theology communication God's word words Okay need consider God thinks communication digitally Yeah anxiety Bible says anxious How much How much supposed anxious Nothing Nothing anxious nothing man Digital Our digital world causing anxiety Yeah affects young girls anybody else whole body image issue statistics mental health statistics staggering right report came Australian Jonathan Haidt quoted want stop scrolling don't Young people want stop scrolling can't help ourselves Okay causing kinds anxiety psychological descriptions maladies words Nomophobia writings psychological disorders mobile phobia People rather broken bone broken staggering try take smartphone away child hour see kind fights hands crazy Identity huge issue People enough Likes enough first suicide connected social media happened village live Louis area small community Megan Meyer first suicide connected social media jealous mother pretended boyfriend rival daughter jealous mother set account pretended Megan's boyfriend dumped told reason live went hung Oh goodness back theology communication power life death post update apply word God digital life case literally cases across nation lives degree death life post stay Theology Communication minute give account idle update Bible says everything Bible says communication says digital communication Yeah Every idle word Oh yeah applies Every idle word digital form switch back stairs again Identity People's identity California especially young ladies go plastic surgeons show pictures Instagram filters ask plastic surgery make look like digital Persona real thing So identity wrapped social media existential crisis biological being digital presence part second skin almost okay doing paying attention church yeah identity relationships talked then spirituality Bible says shall God balance fact spend two hours phone yet spend ten minutes prayer Yeah Who's God life true true Oh getting real Ryan That's That's real issue We don't think If spending twenty five years life smartphone can't prayer meeting who's who's throne see way take inventory start thinking critically God thinks commitment phones digital life God pleased amount focus sure give equal time prayer working phones day whatever depending job may hold think key Correct push against like key willing push aside pray hour interrupted relationship Lord case continuing greatest commandment love God second love others willing push aside love somebody human being relationship around relationship allow interfere vital relationships telling preaching Hey thing use digital communication encourage somebody Now idea yeah thought talking think Jesus Gethsemane today may come back stone praying said could pray hour playing phone true true fatigue isn't issue fragmented attention Right mind going church play role helping people live digital age live faithfully exactly precisely wrote book ignore heard district superintendent weeks ago said teaching church youth group teaching wrote book although years research footnotes bibliography robust wrote accessible hopefully thirteen fourteen year old read help intentional unique thing book intersection applies theology digital life intentional addressing issue silent changing everyone Oh talking young people talking young promise fastest growing demographics older saints hey listen thrilled Ryan hold friends Australia FaceTime What's beautiful timing works great talk one morning FaceTime perfect love technology available use practical help kingdom instead destroy relationships intentional start tackling issue lose generation yeah started go ahead stat country Facebook subscribers passed country bigger community bigger Largest country China India think It's start applying scripture theology communication help deal social media ethical way focus spirituality shut phones pray focus relationships put phones away dinner device free start doing pay attention intentional church silent long yeah touched want route touched subject AI advice thoughts AI like share thing concerns AI believe culture talking larger culture culture end prioritizing collective truth objective truth Explain little bit Well AI conglomerate information available different resources before continue podcast episode brought Christian Leader Community Coaching Christian leader overwhelmed complexity trying figure grow team introduce Christian Leader Community Coaching program easy use online platform full archive courses supportive community live group coaching elements customizable specifically team personally seen quick enormous impact team leaders focused together learning mastering skills needed grow leadership effectiveness enjoyment want part help create implement plan community affordable afford focused growth within team results heavily depend wait longer Let's Go ryanfranklinklin.org join Christian Leader Community Coaching today look forward seeing team inside community now back podcast mean literally people ask AI saved instead looking word God So asking AI situation Oh gotta gotta watch young people listen Let's teach biblical principles because AI does not have enough apostolic input yet or maybe never will give accurate answer about should Treat brother Okay depend word God prioritize word God collective call collective truth concerns things like going AI bot figure regulate emotion's high angry stressed people going AI figure regulate feel crossing line bit because Lord designed regulation method also need others human relationships regulation method mind cases like which day day stuff mean sociology something very important go God go others something like AI artificial intelligence digital whatever replacement two things benefit enhance great replacement two things think really mind key keys sort checking encapsulated technology general like said rule Americans especially embrace technology ever considering impact Okay Neil Postman Faustian bargain Faustian bargain however say For gain equal loss He gives analogy blacksmith thought automobile help job better quicker thought able horse put shoes horses automobile blind fact make obsolete Okay take place Right automobile make job immature way Or yeah go away yeah understand yeah getting gains use losing process communicate right AI even social media surrogate God Okay communication either situation replacing replacing pick social media account loneliness call prayer Yeah true talking AI relationship becomes endless brings isolation intentional connecting God each systematically probably need schedule coffee friend agree agree percent fact catch coffee friend gotten flack life team five people life schedule month Zoom schedule together ask specific questions unpack another various gotten flack before people schedule relationships thinking schedule happen schedule relationships person challenged said getting together family Tuesday night said wait minute scheduled family gathering Tuesday night laughed said okay point taken point taken don't schedule things love great solution actually pull calendar schedule something technology people put phone whenever Right apply every part talking Schedule prayer time Schedule digital detox time thirty minutes away schedule dinner device free started while Connie Bernard told popular restaurant Austin day called restaurant tried find details walk door smartphone won't work intentional kind scrambler popular restaurants Austin Wow loud walk Everybody's conversations lost art right Wow go interruptions suggested short stack smartphones table first goes buzz buy table buy meal table leave alone intentional main point intentional take back lives walk God relationships families So wrap close let's individual individual's individual Christian leader whoever listening realize technology control would Of talked feel like simple powerful step person could week start reclaiming Dominion Get beyond great first step well honest here's thing assessment honest Because quote book Let see quote real quick Neil Postman says better Because lengthy intimate inevitable relationship culture technology invite close examination consequences Hmm read again Because lengthy intimate inevitable relationship culture technology invite close examination consequences Wow another writer said way continually nudged devices toward set choices question whether choices leading actually want Yeah controlled gotta take back control main thing Would assessment evaluation digital life obviously bring reality reality helps become motivated make changes Would assessment agree good assessment look relational fruit person's life relational fruit person's life relation technology God others Would agree good assessment excellent assessment ask honest question children feel intrusion feel smartphone intrusion Do Do children feel answer phone quicker answer You know know relational free Oh even God Would God honest about Would God think place above relationship respond respond box say no very honest agree gps kinds discretionary prioritize right things Priorities all good yeah good like discretionary prioritizing right things over technology Well twenty six years twenty five Twenty six years could surgeon spent time school commercial airline pilot degree couldn't spent time reclaim reclaim lives really honestly thinking critically choices start yeah yeah Well good opportunity Anything else would share audience talk book moment relation To To digital things Well actions come nature counterintuitive mean initial reaction need spend less time smartphone counterintuitive answer God need submit change nature real dependence real priority forgive wasting help put devices altar okay Isaac precious mean brain affects dopamine hits pleasure brain scientists neurological neurologists tell love tech hyperbole real Yeah So submit prayer commitment actions please love heart really love well much more purchase dive links Dr.Trimble In show notes YouTube podcast episode links hardback Why don't ahead say well Where hardback best place hardback link post office affordable major outlets most affordable place hardcover Not hardcover nice addition telling beautiful look shelf finish reading halfway through imprint Thomas Nelson Zonderman proud soft cover available major outlet encourage hardcover link post competitive soft cover price enjoy hardcover better absolutely thank joining Dr.Trimble greatly appreciate spending share tremendous research done thank doing thank work Ryan You're rock star man You keep putting great content bringing attention very important issues big fan digital presence vast good positive way thank being part solution well thank much again thank time concludes show today name Ryan Franklin Thank joining Christian Leader Made simple podcast

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