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From Wall Street to the Pulpit: The Calling Lincoln Graham, Jr. Couldn't Outrun

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  • 13 min read

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What's subtly wearing you out? Free self-assessment for ministry leaders: https://www.ryanfranklin.org/clselfassessment 

Join Christian Leader® Community Coaching: https://www.ryanfranklin.org/communitycoaching 


Lincoln Graham had a career on Wall Street that was actually working. Asset backed securities. Derivatives. A future in wholesale banking that made sense on paper. Then he walked away from it.


In this episode, Pastor Lincoln Graham of Oneness Pentecostal Tabernacle in Queens, NY talks about choosing law school over Bible school, getting sick and losing his academic eligibility, and eventually finding his way back to ministry after 9/11, leading a mature congregation as a total newcomer.


But the real story here is what came after. Lincoln describes his drive as ADHD like, the kind of energy that doesn't know when to stop. It cost him his health more than once. And as a pastor's kid himself, he'd already seen what that same drive does to a family from the inside.


This one is for any leader who's confusing burnout with faithfulness. Lincoln walks through what it actually took to find real boundaries between himself, his family, and the church he leads.






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Transcript


Welcome to the Christian Leader Made Simple podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Franklin, and I'm an executive coach and the Vice President of Strategic Leadership and Operations for Pentecostal Resources Group and the United Pentecostal Church International. If you're leading in ministry or a business, then you likely know just how easy it is to get scattered, to lose your focus, and to start feeling ineffective. I've been there myself, and that's why I created the Christian Leader Self Assessment. It's free, and in just 10 minutes, it'll show you exactly how to gain clarity and confidence as a leader. Go to ryanfranklin.org or you can click the link in the description to take the assessment today.


And so now let's dive into today's episode.


Most of us think our story has to look a certain way before God can use it. Like we have to walk a straight line. We have to have a crystal clear calling. We can't have any detours in life. But some of the strongest leaders that I know go to that strong place by failing their way forward.


My guest today has spent years in wholesale banking, trading in asset-backed securities and derivatives, building a career on Wall Street that has actually worked for him. And then he walked away from it all to pastor a congregation in southeastern Queens. He survived 9/11. He led a mature church as a total newcomer, and along the way, he learned the hard way what happens when a person's drive outruns the body that he lives in.


Reverend Lincoln Graham Jr. is the senior pastor of Oneness Pentecostal Tabernacle, which is a congregation approaching 50 years in southeastern Queens, New York. He's used his finance background to fuel grassroots community development. He serves as a presbyter in the New York Metro UPCI district, and he sits on the board of Building the Bridge Ministry.


Pastor Graham is also a PK himself, which means that he learned about the cost of ministry from the inside before he ever actually stepped into it. Oh, and by the way, he still plays basketball at 60 plus years old, so we might get into that as well.


Pastor Graham, welcome to the show.


Thank you, Brother Ryan, how are you doing?


I am doing good. Why don't we just jump into that 60 plus years? I don't even know how old you are.


Well, it's 59.


Oh, okay. Well, excuse me. I have no problem with the age, but you know, it is 59.


But still playing basketball?


Well, you know, God's been good to me. I've twisted things, bent things, but never broken them. So I don't know how to play golf and I don't do tennis yet. So I continue to do what I do. I'm a creature of habit.


So I'm wondering if Pastor John Russell, who is a mutual friend of ours, has shown you any techniques or tips of basketball?


Oh Lord, I've only beat him once. And after that I gave him a tongue lashing for allowing such a travesty. There's no way in heaven or earth I should have won once. He's an awesome basketball player.


So I'm shocked by that—not because of your skill—but I'm just shocked that somebody...


He was very friendly that day.


Yeah, he's a good guy indeed.


Well, let's jump into our questions today.


First thing I want to ask you: just take us back to the moment that you chose law school over Bible school. What was going through your head at that time?


That was a very tumultuous time as a preacher's kid. It wasn't the easiest time in terms of ministry for our family. A lot of things were going on while we were building the building that we now worship in some of it wasn't very good; some of it was very tumultuous.


Part of me wanted to create my own pathway and my own road away from church, so to speak. And it's not to say that I was backsliding—you know—I had been preaching since I was 16—but I wanted a different pathway and I didn't want to go the same way everybody else was going.


And then of course, I was a very curious person; I was always a very curious person and prolific reader. I liked to put things together; I liked ideas; and if there was one thing that expressed ideas in its purest form it was law.


Even today, to me law is beyond the technical process; it's about life and it's how we order life—and so that intrigued me.


So you got 45 credits into law school and then you got sick and you ended up academically ineligible instead of just withdrawing? Tell us about that season.


That was one of the dark parts of my early life.


I was building my own identity; I was building my own identity outside of my father's very large shadow and my parents' very large shadow.


My mother was a force of nature and my father reminded me of one of those old stalwart preachers from a far-gone era.


It was a situation of trying to start back over—how do I start back over? It wasn't even so much that—it was who am I and where am I going?


My idea was: I was going to go to law school; probably afterwards do B school; get into business; do something for myself.


It's not that I was leaving God—but I was really trying to run away from calling—I knew I had calling but I was denying it—and so I was kind of like Jonah running—and it was a very dark moment trying to find myself.


Make matters worse: this was in '92-'93—so Wall Street New York City—the whole entire country—was in a financial morass; economic morass—and jobs were hard to come by—and it took me almost a year and a half to find a job—so it was even bittersweet when I knew my friends were graduating and I was still left on ice so to speak.


It was a time of me really questioning myself and trying to figure out how to keep my mind busy because people like me—you don't want them unbusy—mischief lurks around corners when we're not busy—so it was dark time—I had to struggle with what turned out be good thing—I had praying mother—I’d wake up every morning at five or six o'clock hearing her praying for me—for direction—for focus—and not just having grandmother but wonderful folks I'd met in Christ—the Watson clan—Brother Raymond Watson's mother Mama Watson when she was alive would listen patiently while I'd rant and rave—in her shoes she probably would have said grow up move on train has passed—but she allowed me get off chest things couldn't talk about with mother or wouldn't talk about with mother—and that's saying something because she (Mama Watson) had been an upperclassman when we were undergrad—we had classes together spent time talking not just academics but life—and definitely wouldn't talk with father because at time he was really old school hidebound UPC preacher—not things talked about with father—but Mama Watson allowed me express myself until began figure out who I am.


That's interesting—something you said caught my attention—you said you were running—what were you running from?


Well—as mentioned earlier—when 16—I belonged group young people men women different ages backgrounds across fellowship who instinctively started witnessing in schools high schools colleges—I believe late Pastor Terry one—he evangelized folks on college football team same time did same thing at high school went elite NYC public high school where religion unlikely—but product people had faith in me—that summer woke up so-to-speak always sleeping angry sullen church—but particular summer brother Cameron blind student City College rallied young people street ministry initially tried hide closet basement one Sunday said make sure bring Brother Lincoln with street ministry pushed out said say something—to shock their shock more than said something there anointing life nobody expected after whole summer preaching subways made up mind fall wasn’t going back high school being invisible introvert among 6k students block long block wide decided not invisible anymore intentionally sought opportunity found Bible study followed singing early morning sat down told greet more than greeted revival several received Holy Ghost gift some still OPT equivalents errands errs life changed mindset what could do who was high school showed could do if intentional purposeful struggling self-doubt prior knew if set mind could do something but running from it by college doing college thing trying not preach tug-of-war within big tug-of-war turmoil congregation building facility spilled over life wanted withdraw isolate without wonderful people probably lost soul God gracious fools like me


Even amidst quitting law school getting sick however unfolded trying build identity running from calling feel trying keep mind busy lot internal tug-of-war battles going on but spent years learning finance world asset backed securities derivatives whole thing what did world teach still use ministry today?


That formative started wholesale banking first job starting salaries around $18k making little more questioned why go school probably better laborer but once got in struggling where going what doing path should take started corporate trust wholesale banking ground zero old school hidebound white shoe mentality fast-paced cutthroat environment later started sophisticated securities hands suited started credit card receivables moved other asset backed mortgage backed each time more excited


Things live on environment not as fast equity market trading floor closing days payment cycles nearly achieve need prioritize time energy sense trouble prepare trouble operate with unforgiving people diffuse failures honest power honesty spiritual practical standpoint own up don’t know where securities call back update learned keep head when others losing focus downside live long highly charged bang bang environment difficult move when standstill


When say environment specifically Wall Street? Yeah wholesale worked large money center banks after law school prominent banks instruments operated put up million-dollar deals weekly Friday Sunday night roll work email lawyers CPAs come early Monday cascade forth satisfy bosses employees organize many things Thursday close 50-75 deals time limit 2pm securities in out clients traders short fuse harsh direct disapproval perfection needed often didn’t get reassure competent describing Wall Street or ministry environments? Prototype for it learned deep breath middle chaos center self focus center not easy project confidence reassurance done good stead dealing people verge losing loved ones difficult conversations middle night panic disaster struck helps lot


You said two things caught attention prepare trouble what does preparing for trouble look like? Within framework transactional risk trustee standpoint supposed ensure everything place value assets more than own transactionally situations securities undelivered traders insist deliver side old-school pre-Glass Steagall definite no-no assets before assets out pacify frayed nerves where assets hundred million fifty five million don’t see securities customer service appreciate customer treat guests gold teach leaders treat gold view same viewpoint now


Relational leadership? Yes learned hard way folks walk business important movement second employer six months felt dipped fire gone hell back culture bank officers no bank hours nine-five worth salt leave six clock impress stay till nine thirty young family wife toddler newborn didn’t sit well wife toddler learn priorities noticed boss leave four clock softball games kids recalibrate ideals prior necessary Saturdays nonsense necessary ahead game took six months learn priorities important family foremost negative fruit lifestyle realize doesn’t work indeed fire dipped helped job function came situation customer angry moving $400 million securities out big task wasn’t sure learning fly numbers didn’t add customer trader San Francisco unhappy daily cursed blessed weeks figure assets ready transfer new trustees chagrin loathe individual said current employer don’t deserve allow give name moved business shrugged two weeks later call clipped halfway European Latin American speech name want conversation name given position gave excuses shouldn’t go working near Trade Center boss didn’t care resume doesn’t matter exasperation left chair new job offer fifteen minutes later resigned counteroffered saw value struggle wife expecting second child divided energy counteroffered executive floor name price could ask pay B-school bump initially planned accept counteroffer night before final answer dream literal someone said time go morning boss asked decision said God said time go sent word exec floor couldn’t argue new boss treated son employee taught finer points leading people service best foot first day after son born left office company time Museum Modern Art first time looked art first day learned lot still sends birthday cards see lunch treat father life


Learned astronomical amount both jobs trouble failure chaoticness previous job beautiful life second environment relational leadership taught major way not question given advance hearing two worlds church world trouble failure chaoticness one world relational leadership mentorship beautiful life other world learned lot both more what not do first sure question speak bit contemplative introspective backward usually forward focused language forward focused learned falling face forward help fall forward last job tone ministry transitioning pastorhood first job chaotic pastoring without knowing how pastor knew systems processes widgets hadn’t realized human scope perspective anything business transaction spiritual house God counting widgets showed second started learn finer points moving toward 9/11 good precursor newbie seen father pastor thought knew something pastoring different world living his shadow rubber hit road discovered reality world choices sobering prescient holes education passionate gung ho energy relational aspect unaware great precursor learn humility fall face realize expendable levels taught compassion taught not judge book cover best things happened worst times blessed truth cocky thought smart after kicked law school life happening ways couldn’t comprehend put realize outside grace God there go outside favor people connections there go set tone many things


Described drive ADHD drive dog bone gave dog bone couldn’t peel away focus drive when first realize drive costing physically even ministry interesting coming second major job really starting ministry at time working 55-60 hours week plus 15-18 hours church work toddler wife expecting last child starting new job position around 9/11 floodgate challenges opportunities blessings cursings wife busy CPA attorney traveling sorting selves individuals professionals children hiding self come full circle minister rely place uncertain still struggle conversation all come pinch point started getting sick transactional work cycles busyness weekly ramp crescendo Thursday close hundreds deals short breath Friday blow ups settle start biweekly monthly quarterly semiannual quarterly started bronchitis pneumonia weird diseases jungle illnesses frustration doctor worn depleted depleted ministering empty showing energy working empty vacuum husband father empty crashing massive bout prior second job knocked June-August doctor thought TB ironically clear lungs scar tissue first report 2016 deficits from 9/11 grace God grace work God bridge first tower vanguard coated soot media three years persistent cough stress revert chest infections bronchitis pneumonia stressors let know not well


Drive quest success church brought place emotionally physically spiritually drained witnessed dad family recognize doing same family life heard first Wall Street job described phrase diffuse failure learned diffuse failure quick otherwise head taken midst sicknesses nature imagine something kicked realized defuse failure headed eventually found right boundaries what finding right boundaries between family church look like practice think still work progress beginning realization looking Scripture differently used preach not live realized truths Genesis covenant formation progressive starts light separation multiplication rest ultimately must come rest Genesis placed Adam garden serve keep responsibilities serve keep maintain old hand stewardship corporate trust administration legal understanding stewardship relational standpoint protect wife children health protect health protect others protect congregation realize true service look make choices ego wrapped ministry had redefine success knew mandate give next leaders generation no worse shape received understood okay be Isaac if not Abraham Jacob Bible little Isaac bridge dream receivers dream makers redefine success part success who put energy into teach grow develop find three twelve seventy differentiate crowds give access garden serve keep based commitment didactic spiritual gradual many years still struggle children ministry son licensed minister daughter corporate attorney strengths effectiveness ministers house wife attorney toxicologist inability diffuse caused strike own glad powerful boards impact NYC boards sits cut dry perpetually falling forward honest able get up hold hands walk forward commitment fall forward brush off acknowledge willing put extended journey kids learn fail own judge sometimes wrong properly protect view exigencies leadership leader fights front liable take first bullet bad preacher take bullet front line eyes family hurt preacher takes bullet sometimes don’t good job work progress boundaries set biblical standpoint boundaries biblical standpoint fail salvageable basic principles covenant covenant family covenant wife children covenant self failing overweight longevity long journey covenant community honor order importance before God keep order Genesis voice let there be confusion disorder darkness light always looking light important diffuse danger need find light look God’s perfection talking light perfection Urim Thummim breastplate high priest went Urim Thummim danger national issues problems considered years God interested problem interested see me if can’t see perfect situation perfect see regardless situation happening around clearing air seeing foreground what trying do approach simplifies choices easy hard sometimes not easy


Asked talk met first time NAMM planning event UPCI headquarters sensed deep character humility wrestled ego insecurities sensed done deep ability attach bond create boundaries hearing integration encourage kids fail forward don’t avoid failure got fail forward sensing authority redefined success tough spouts mistakes failed ability pastor healthy lead family healthy learned redefined success reason asked talk through wasn’t sure conversation go end one question young pastor same overdrive energy burning out unknowing tell them have conversation young preachers need comfortable own skin comfortable means understand calling mentioned everyone not Abraham Jacob someone bridge someone invisible comfort strong silent bridges personality introvert tell build life basic God covenant principles calling built God called principles if not James situation fall temptations hole too deep won’t dig self won’t prove calling won’t understand God counsel young preachers take long road step step consequential slow step step open opportunities opportunities unique God different work each importantly rough spots sanded fruit manifest different others encourage focus fruit development great advice patience not glamorous humility not glamorous lose skin buffeting end most important able say Creator gave us give back lose none greatest compliment serve keep trustworthy received


Anything else wrap?


Counsel ministers Pastor Gurley’s Healthy Church Initiative pastors struggling plateau slowly dying beginning turnaround starts with initial engine often knocked back don’t see promises calling change language encourage get back divine language humanistic form make covenant language wherever covenant look back see covenant remind God made covenants himself word if don’t understand situation need transparent preachers transparency fear marked failures succeeded failing forward more transparent self before people doors open encourage regardless struggle find someone transparent help begin process turning around struggle


Excellent words excellent wisdom love love love last line succeeded failing forward tremendous words


Pastor Graham thank you so much willing join blessing Christian Leader Made Simple community phenomenal man God haven’t known long learning love know why Pastor John Russell loves tremendous man lots wisdom thank you


Thank you think birds feather like big ideas looking forward conversations conclude show today my name Ryan Franklin thank you joining Christian Leader Made Simple podcast


Copyright © 2026 Ryan Franklin. All rights reserved.


 
 
 

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