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From Confusion to Clarity: How Pastor Luke St.Clair Learned to Hear God

  • Writer: Ryan Franklin
    Ryan Franklin
  • 7 minutes ago
  • 34 min read

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In this episode of The Christian Leader Made Simple Show, Pastor Luke St.Clair joins us to explore what it means to pray as a whole man—spirit, soul, and body. Drawing from his book The Whole Man, Pastor St. Clair unpacks a powerful framework of praying Scripture, hearing God’s voice clearly, and creating a consistent rhythm of prayer in the middle of leadership demands. We talk about everything from the Tabernacle model of prayer to renewing strength through prayer over the body—and how leaders can carry the right burdens while laying down the wrong ones. If you’ve ever felt spiritually dry, overwhelmed, or just stuck in your prayer life, this conversation will point you back to clarity and connection with God.






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Transcript


There's just nothing like living this every day to where prayer is not an event, it's the culture of my life. Welcome to the Christian Leader Made simple podcast. I really hope this episode helps you learn and master the skills you need to grow your leadership, effectiveness and enjoyment. Be sure to hit the subscribe button to get notified as soon as I post a new session so you don't miss a single episode. I'd also greatly appreciate any reviews, likes and shares that you can give me. It just helps me extend my reach to more people. So leaders, I know just how frustrating it can feel when you're in the weeds of work or ministry and life is chaotic. You're struggling to feel effective and you're just not enjoying leadership as much as you could be. And so to help you, after many years of leadership and executive coaching, I've developed a framework called the Christian Leader Blueprint that'll guide you to find clarity in your life and leadership. It'll help you gain a better rhythm of life, it'll help you see yourself more clearly to leverage your strengths, and you'll produce more productive relationships. It's a step by step guide to leadership transformation and I have that in two formats now. I have a free short guide that you can find on ryanfranklin.org, and I have a book, the Christian Leader Blueprint, and you can find that in any format, including an audiobook, wherever you buy your books. I have a few more things on my website that you may be interested in, so just head on over to ryanfranklin.org and check it all out. And now let's get to our session. Welcome to the Christian Leader Made Simple Show. I'm your host, Ryan Franklin and on the show today we have a special guest, Pastor Luke St. Clair. Luke is not only a pastor, but he's a man of deep prayer and devotion and today we're diving into a conversation on his book the Whole Men, which is a tremendous prayer framework that is helping leaders align their spiritual soul and body with the presence of God. Just to tell you a little bit about Luke, he was born and raised in Anderson, Indiana, where he currently lives and he's been on the pastoral staff of First Pentecostal Church of Anderson since 2000 and then he stepped into the senior pastor role in 2012. He and his wife TJ were married in 2001 and have three daughters, Lauren, Gracelyn and Jocelyn. Luke is a student of God's Word and deeply believes in the power of fervent prayer and fasting and Outside of ministry, he is also a private pilot who enjoys aviation and the outdoors. So welcome to the show. Pastor Luke. Hey, thank you, Ryan. It's so good to be here with you. Yes. Awesome. Just to kind of bump you on the outdoors portion of your. Tell me, what do you like to do in the outdoors? Well, here in the great state of Indiana, we have some massive white tailed deer. So obviously I love to hunt. White tailed deer, love to hike. I love the mountains. I always laugh about it because I love being in the mountains. And the Lord must have knew that because he planted me right here in central Indiana where there's not a mountain for miles. No distractions. Pastor Lee that's exactly right. Someone said parts of it so flat you could watch your dog run away for two weeks, but it's really, it's not quite that bad, for sure. But yeah, I love being outdoors, man. I love to hunt and hike. It's a lot of fun. Yeah, I do the same. That's really probably. I don't golf or anything like that, but I love to hike and really love to hunt whitetails as well. And when I'm not hunting, when the season's not in, I'm always preparing to hunt. So, yeah, it's, it's a full time, you know, all year round hobby. Of course. I've got to get my fix. I play golf in the summer, I hunt in the fall. Man. Our, our winter hunts here, they get frigid. I mean, when that wind's blowing and it's zero degrees outside, it's pretty tough to sit in a tree stand. But it's still fun. I love it. I bet. So. But I, I would, I would be out there. As soon as you give me the invite, I'm there. You're invited, my man. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, sir. Well, let's get to what we're interviewing today. It's about your book on prayer, the whole man. Yes, sir. And this undoubtedly came from a deep life of prayer and devotion, I would hope, anyway. Yeah. Were there any key moments in your life that led you to this passion and this book? You know, Ryan, I think probably more than a moment in my life, it had a lot to do with how I was raised. In short, my family were itinerant evangelists. We traveled full time. When I was five years old, we went on the road for several years. And so we lived in church. I mean, we literally were in church 350 days a year. And my parents were revivalists. My dad, incredible preacher, still is and would still be in church 350 nights a year if he could. But it wasn't just what my mom and dad taught me about having church at night. It was what they taught me, what they did during the day. That revival doesn't just happen, and results don't just happen. It is a life of dedicated prayer. And so we didn't just go to church at night. We would park our trailer by the churches, and we'd go in in the day, and I'd watch my mother and dad lay in the floor and grab hold of the horns of the altar and pray and seek God. And so it was really birthed out of a passion for me in my life, more than just something that we do. I was taught that prayer is, to me, as a Christian, what breathing is for oxygen in my body and something that we had to have. And then later, when I started preaching, I was told, son, you don't pray to preach, and you don't study to preach. You pray to live, and you study to live. And ministry is a part of the outflow of doing that. So it's kind of a long answer, but that's really how it started. It wasn't just a moment. It was a culture that was cultivated in my life. What do you feel that's tremendous, by the way, that you had that example in your life, but what do you feel led you to want to write this book? Yeah, I travel a lot, as you mentioned. I've been pastoring in pastoral ministry for a long time, so I deal with a lot of people. And I started noticing a common thread through Pentecost. And it was a constant question in some way, shape or form that would come in alignment with the language of how do you pray that long? I run out of things to say. I don't know what to say when I pray. I pray a few things, and then it's like I just run out of things to say. And it started really being a burden to me. And I carried this for, you know, probably 10 years. I started praying out of a prayer book or journal, whatever you want to call it. My mom gave me one when I was just a kid. She made it for me, and I tell that story in the book. But I would be praying a structured prayer, you know, walking in the sanctuary or whatever, for probably 10 years. And I would feel the Lord impress on me, you need to share this with people. You need to help give people access to prayer resources. And of course, it was a constant argument, God, why would anybody want to do that? And of course, you don't want that to be your first book. You know, I'm going to release a prayer guide as my first book, but it was just a burden man, that people. And I'm not talking about people that just prayed through. I'm talking about people that have been in the church for 20, 30 years. And we can't make it through 30 minutes of prayer without a playlist adjustment because we pull on emotions to make our prayers powerful. And so it's just a tool. The whole man is not the way to pray. It's a way to pray. And if it helps anybody build a structure in their prayer life, it's worth it. No doubt, no doubt. Well, in the book you write that Jesus said, he who has ears to hear, let him hear. Jesus repeated that many times. And obviously we live in a very noisy world today. What does that mean practically today for leaders who want to sort of cultivate spiritual ears that hear God's voice in the middle of the noise? Sure. I think a lot of this has to do with familiarity, knowing what to listen for, knowing what his voice sounds like. And I think sometimes we overcomplicate that a little bit. And I'm not saying this to just be generic or even sound like kind of smart alec, but we have 66 books of him speaking in the canon of scripture, and we're always listening for the audible voice of God. Well, I only know a few people. I've been in Pentecost all my life, and I've only heard a couple of people that say they've heard the audible voice of God. But 100% of us have access to the voice of God. And so the whole man, practically speaking, is the power of taking the word of God and returning it before the throne of God by praying the Word of God. And so when the Word becomes a part of my vocabulary and I start praying that word every day, where I'm not just reading the scripture that says, lord, your word says that the man's mind is stayed on you and he's going to have perfect peace. No, when I take that and I make that mine, Lord, your Word says that you will keep me in perfect peace if I keep my mind stayed on you. The Lord just spoke to me through his Word while I was praying to him. I have a promise that I can lay hold to that if I'll keep my mind stayed on him, I'll walk in perfect peace. And so when you pray the Word, his Word speaks to you every day. And it's in those little pauses in between what you say when you take a deep breath and say, okay, Lord, what are you trying to say to me? That you may hear that still small voice, but man, just walking in the Word, living in the Word, praying the word, and letting it become a part of the fabric and fiber and cadence of who you are. It makes all the difference in the world. Because you can hear from God. Yeah, absolutely. And I would echo that many times in my life when I'm seeking His voice. It may not even be me reading His Word. It may just be something I've read in His Word that just jumps into my mind. And I know that that's the Lord speaking to me many times. That's how I hear his voice a lot of times, and direction. So you talk about praying over the spirit, soul and body, the whole man. First of all, what does that actually look like practically? And then secondly, why is this so important for leaders, especially spiritual leaders, to approach prayer in that way? The whole concept came from 1 Thessalonians 5:23, where man is created into three parts, spirit, soul, and body. But in the practical sense, and I tell about this in the whole man, but I basically pray, have for years pray a more tabernacle type structured prayer. And the whole man is actually just a portion of what I pray. And I pray it literally. So after I've entered His gates with thanksgiving, been to the altar, laid on the cross, crucified my flesh, been cleansed in the laver, whatever, I go through this whole deal before I ask God for anything, before I go to warfare, for anything, before I do anything, I literally pray the Word and plead the blood over my whole man. And that's what the book is. I start at the top of my head and I pray scriptures over my mind, over my eyes, over my ears. And it's so vitally important because when you start reading the scripture, Ryan, it's so cool to me how it's all interconnected and just. For instance, may the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in Thy sight. It does no good if just what you're saying is acceptable. The heart has to be in alignment too. Who shall ascend into the hill of the Lord and stand in his holy mountain? He that hath clean hands and a pure heart. And you can go line after line and the principles there, but it's a matter of being submitted. And I think if we can grow into this in our prayer, it makes a difference in who we are as a man or a woman, because we're not just submitting the part to God. Every day that people see, we're submitting the parts to God that nobody knows but us and God. Yeah. And that's so vitally important for us to pray that whole man, because it's not just about my body. I do submit my body. A living sacrifice. Right. But what good is it to say that my body is submitted when my heart's running rampant? My mind is somewhere else. And this really, in essence, just kind of the short of it is this comes down to fruit. If you're. If your whole man is submitted, you'll never have to tell anybody because there's going to be fruit in your life. And there's only one way to get it. There's only one way to get it, which. That's what the Christian leader blueprint my book speaks of. It's basically a format of diving into the internal of the leader so that the external produces good fruit. That's really the essence of it. If you want effective and healthy leadership in your life. Same thing with, you know, as you would develop those things within you in regards to leadership. We have to develop that within our prayer life that we're focusing on the internal parts of our life, not just the external parts. Growing the internal of our life so that we can produce that fruit that is so needed in our lives. Yes, sir. And I would also say just a little bit of a rabbit trail here that, you know, a lot of times we focus on gifts. Gifts are a big part of our ministry and our life. And that's the outward parts. That's the parts that gets validated. But what about that fruit? Yeah, it's critical that we work on that fruit as well, because that's what's going to build productive relationships in our ministries in our life. Would you agree? 100%. And I think unequivocally we can state that we will never truly bear pure gifts. Now, there are people that are gifted, but we'll never truly manifest pure gifts until we have fruit. I would agree. Effective gifts. Effective. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because there's, you know, it's a rabbit trail. But we've got to the place, Ryan, where we. We judge people by the results that we see. Yeah. And. And I always, when I talk about this, I always go back to Moses in the wilderness when the Lord told him to speak to the rock and he smites the rock. And the results were that water came out. Well, if he would have obeyed, this is very interesting to me that if he would have walked in 100% pure obedience to God, he would have got the same result that he got when he walked in disobedience. And that wasn't because of his reaction. It was because of God's word to his people. And so we've got to be very careful judging a ministry by their gifts. We've got to judge the ministry and a leadership by their fruit. And the Bible doesn't say that men will know us by our gifts. It says they'll know us by our fruit. That's so true. Yeah. Yeah. So good. So in the book you talk about using, and you just mentioned this, talk about using the tabernacle model as a framework for prayer. As you know, Bishop Anthony Mangan also wrote a book on the tabernacle model. So I'm very familiar with it and have used it for many years myself. Yes. But can you walk us through how this might help strengthen a leader's prayer life? You know, I think it's. There's a little principle that we actually, we can see the principle from Genesis all the way through, and that is that when God created man in his. His image, it is a type and shadow. It's hard to without jumping off the deep end of the pool, but it's type and shadow of on earth as it is in heaven. Exactly. Yeah. And then we see that when Jesus disciples said, teach us to pray. And he said, I want you to pray on earth as it is in heaven. And so the cool thing about the tabernacle is that Moses wasn't the one that thought of was something that was in heaven and the Lord wanted it established on the earth. And it's that way that we can approach. And again, it's like I said earlier, man, it's not the way to pray, but it's a way to pray. And if you're looking for a way to go deeper, I tell people all the time that ask me about praying structured prayer like this, you know, they're worried about, well, does it turn into vain babbling? Does it turn into vain repetition? You start trying it, you spend time at that gate and thankfulness and gratitude, and you start letting that pour out of your heart like you're not walking out of that tabernacle in 10 minutes. It's going to bring a structure to your life. By chance, there is a day that it becomes a vain repetition. I would rather be repeating that than some of the other things I could repeat. Man, it's so true. It's true. And this is the heart cry really, of who we are. We begin with thanksgiving. We have to repent. Every day. I mean, we should. If the Apostle Paul's dying daily, Then surely Luke St Clair should be dying daily. Absolutely. So I might as well lay on that altar, lay myself on the altar, which the cross replaced for us. Jesus said, take up your cross. Luke recorded him saying, daily and follow after me. If any man's going to come after me, he's going to deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. So the pattern is there. And I feel like sometimes the thing that we're lacking with prayer number one is the hardest thing about praying is getting there. And the second hardest part of prayer is, once I get there, what do I say? And so building that structure in your life, it takes away at least one excuse. Right. And that's the excuse of I don't know what to say. And the other one nobody can really help you with. It's a decision that you got to make. As Bishop Joel Holmes says all the time, brother, you got to grab yourself by the nap of the neck, drag yourself to a prayer room. And it's true. I mean, it's true. Nobody's ever going to write a book that teaches you to pray. They can teach you how. Nobody's ever going to make you pray. Well, Luke, you mentioned you're hitting all over this, but I want to bring it out. You write that consistency matters more than length and prayer. And there's a lot of busy pastors or leaders out there that could be tempted to not be as consistent as they need or should be. What does a consistent rhythm of powerful prayer actually look like in practice? Yeah, I think it goes without saying that 100% of us are busy. Yes. And 100% of us need prayer. And so it's kind of like, well. I figured you had 25 hours in your day. Well, super spiritual people do get some bonuses. Yeah. You know, I think it's kind of like winning our world, Ryan. We're so worried about whatever, 8 billion. How could we ever win 8 billion? And we've never talked to our neighbor. And prayer is the same principle. Like, you want to pray three hours a day, and I think it's great, but you're not willing to start with 30 minutes. And so it's small changes in your life that lead to discipline. You don't go lay down on the bench and bench press £300. Yeah. You build your way up to that. You build resistance. You make yourself go. And one day leads to one week, one week to one month. But it's the small changes. And we see this same principle throughout The Scripture, because the word of God answers all these questions for us. When the Lord pulls Moses aside and he turns and he sees the burning bush, it's so crazy, Ryan, because the Lord says to him, take off your shoes, you're standing on holy ground. Well, we just kind of read past that. But the way my brain works and the way I analyze things, you know, like that didn't make sense to me. Like, why's he got to take off his shoes? Until one day I realized, you know, the sole of his shoe was what, maybe an eighth of an inch thick, like just not very much. But apparently it was enough to matter to God. It was the only thing separating him from that holy moment. And so it was a small thing. And the Lord pulled him aside. And he didn't pull him aside so he could say, man, you won't believe this bush that I saw burning. It wasn't consumed. The Lord pulled him aside to see if he was willing to make just a small change. Obedience, that would make a big difference. And so when it comes to holiness and prayer and righteousness and separation in our lives, it's the small things that matter. So don't be consumed with. I'd love to be able to pray three hours. And I want you to. And I think there ought to be seasons, perhaps that you do. But until we start with that, I'm going to make my first move. I'm going to take my shoes off. I'm going to, you know, whatever that looks like. But it's a matter of making it a daily priority to walk with God. To walk with him daily. Years ago, GA Mangan was known for his length of prayer. I want you to pray an hour a day. He would pray much longer than that. He'd pray all day long. But his main thing that he was known for was pray every day. Not every day. Every day, every day. That's right. And he harped on consistency. That was a huge part. He wanted you to pray length as well. But he harped on consistency more than anything. And so thank you for that. There's no shortcuts. There's no shortcuts. No shortcuts. People are wanting to go on 40 day fast. I mean, God bless you. You better know it's of God if you do, for one thing. But the other thing is if you'll give God one 24 hour fast day a week. You fasted 52 days in a year. Jesus said, could you not tarry with me one hour? So we're not like just coming up with this Number apparent that an hour of time mattered to the Messiah. If we could give God one hour a day, Ryan, 365 hours of prayer in a year. That's astounding. When we start multiplying that in the kingdom, 52 days of fasting, 365 hours of prayer, man, that's putting some stock in a vial that's going to be open someday. Yeah. There's no doubt. There is no doubt on the day that we need it as well. Oh, man. Absolutely. Yes, sir. So we talked about this briefly just a minute ago, but I want to double down on it. Approaching, praying the word of God, lifting scripture before the throne of God. How does that shape the way that you hear God's voice in return? Talk about that a little bit. Yeah, I think again, for me, it's helped me make the scripture part of who I am. You know, when you're getting ready for a check ride as a pilot, you spend every day with instructors and other pilots talking the language. Yeah. If you're getting ready for a real estate test, you spend time with realtors and instructors and you, you talk the language. And when we're living for God, I don't understand this, but it's like we are so afraid somebody's going to ask us the million dollar question that we don't have the answer to in the Bible. And the only way you're ever going to get confidence is of knowing the word is talking the language. And so when you hear in prayer, you hear yourself praying the word of God and you're lifting that before the throne of God. And then you come to church on Sunday and your pastor preaches the Word and you take the word that he preached and you write that down, which in my book and the whole man, I left in the prayer journal part, there's a place for you to write notes as you go, you know, so it's all about expanding. But when you take what was preached, and James said it way better than I could ever say it, Ryan, he said we are not to just be hearers, but doers also of the Word. And so when I take what pastor preached to me and I let it go in one ear and out the other, you know, I feel bad that he spent that much time in prayer, fasting, consecration, to bring a word to me that's just going to pass through. But what would happen in our churches and our assemblies if we would start taking what was preached to us and we would start lifting that back before the throne of God every day, Lord, you sent Your man to tell me this week that I could. Powerful concept without fear, favor of men. Lord, I don't have to fear the arrow by day. I know we're in war is all over the world. But I don't have to fear the error by arrow by day or the terror by night. I can walk in the peace of God. You sent my man of God to tell me in church this weekend that my family could be saved. So I lift that word before you one more time and I speak that over my family. So we're. We're talking the language. Yeah. There's a reason why God's been speaking to your pastor. There's a reason why God spoke to the men that's preaching at the conference that you've gone to. Let's not waste that. Let's take that, write it down, use the power of the pen and the power of the tongue, and let's lift that back before the throne of God so that we are speaking the language when the test comes. Yeah, I was going to ask you how that practically looked. And that's a phenomenal. Like, you know, even just actively taking notes as your pastor is preaching will, first of all get you more focused. It'll get your mind off of things around you and off your phone and whatnot. But if you can physically write notes, get off your phone, physically write notes, Amen on what your pastor is preaching, and then go back and pray that for the next few days or week, wow. Yes. That could be powerful. And one gift that we have now is technology. So if you don't want to be distracted, write notes. And you want to be in the amen corner, which we all need as preachers. We need somebody amen in us. But go home. I can amen and take notes at the same time, by the way. That's right. But if, you know, if you're like me and you're ADD and you're like, whoa, that was a squirrel. You know, whatever, Go back tomorrow and watch the webcast. Take some thorough notes. Like, let your brain be saturated by the word of God, man. We've got to get past being so event driven. And I think that's why prayer, it's so hard for us in Pentecost right now. And I don't want this to come across as derogatory at all. But we are very much event driven people. We're not so much discipline driven people because when we get to the event, if the real thing is not happening, then we can mash the gas on the music just a Little bit. And we can stir the emotion or we can put somebody on the organ while we're ripping preaching just a little bit, you know, and we can move crowd, but man. So before we continue on with the podcast, this episode is brought to you by Christian Leader Community Coaching. Are you a Christian leader who is overwhelmed by the complexity of trying to figure out how to grow your team? I want to introduce to you our Christian Leader Community Coaching program. We have an easy online platform that has a full archive of courses, supportive community, live group coaching, and elements that are customizable specifically for your team. And I've personally seen the quick and enormous impact that it can have on a team of leaders who are focused together on learning and mastering the skills needed to grow their leadership, effectiveness and enjoyment. And we want to be a part of that with you. We want to help you create and implement a plan. The community is very much affordable, but I would say that you can't afford not to have focused growth within your team. Your results heavily depend on it. So don't wait any longer. Let's do this together. Go to ryanfranklin.org and join Christian Leader Community Coaching today. I look forward to seeing you and your team inside the community. And now back to our podcast. There's just nothing like living this every day to where prayer is not an event. It's the culture of my life. Yeah. It's really who I am. And so that's why the word is powerful to me. Don't just let what your pastor's working to bring to you die on Sunday night when you go to bed. Keep lifting that before the throne of God until he answers. I'm curious, Luke, in your world, you are the pastor. You're normally in the pulpit on Sunday. What does it look like for you to lift that word to the Lord? Well, you know, the real truth is, Ryan, most of the time, I'm preaching to myself. When I step behind that pulpit, I'm preaching to myself. You're still praying the same over yourself. And I'm getting a head start on the people because I'm praying over it to present it. If God's given me a word of faith for our church, man, I'm going to pray till it happens. I'm going to knock on that door until it comes open. And so it's cool because it gives us a way to bring the people along on the journey with us. We're walking by faith. We're not just stating our faith. And so we're touching and agreeing. I wish we had A little time to jump into that. But that is the power of agreement. God said it. I believe it. I believe it, too. Then let's believe it together. And it makes a major difference. Makes a major difference. So often on this podcast, we talk about how leadership can be physically and emotionally draining. Part of what I do is I help leaders be able to figure out how to self regulate themselves and come out of the bad places physically and emotionally. Prayer is a huge, huge part of that. And you talk about in your book, praying over the body, the ears, the eyes, the hands, the feet. How does that help renew a leader's strength and focus? Again, this comes back to consistency. I've known people in my life, and I'm trying to be very careful how I say this because I sure don't want it to be offensive. But, Ryan, you and I both have known people that have spoken sickness in their life until they get sick. So true. They have spoken down so much that they talk themselves into depression. Power of the spoken tongue. Yeah. Yeah. That's where life and death is. It's in the power of what we say. It's in the power of our voice and our tongue. And I feel very passionate about this. You know, the Lord's given us some really cool gifts now, giftings in Pentecost that we didn't have access to years ago. Whether it be counseling or whatever. You know, we have people on staff. A lot more educated people. Yeah. But the saints of old, when they couldn't find a proverbial sofa to lay down on and pour their heart out to a counselor, they would pour their heart out to the wonderful counselor, mighty God, everlasting Father. You know, and I can only speak from experience of my life and the people that I've pastored and the people that I've been a part of. And I mean this sincerely. I'm not making light of anybody. I'm not saying that there's not some people that deal with certain circumstances, but, bro, the reality is most of the people that I know who are consistent in their prayer life, their prayer walk and fasting, telling their flesh, no, lifting the word of God up, praying the word of God. I'm not saying they don't ever deal with depression, but they don't stay depressed. Yeah. I'm not saying that they don't have dark seasons, but they walk into a dark season feeling differently than everybody else because we walk in lifting the word. Lord, your word says to me that weeping endures for the night, but joy comes in the morning. So right now I declare a sunrise in my life. I lift your word before your throne. Lord, you told me that if I would be not weary in well doing, that in due season I would reap if I faint not. And I don't know when due season is. God only you know when due season is. But I'm going to stand right here until my breakthrough comes and I'm going to knock every day. And when you walk out of that prayer, you can't feel down because you just told the Lord, I'm staying right here till the answer comes. That means, you know an answer's coming. That's really good. Yeah, really good. And to take that a little step forward. A lot of pastors, a lot of leaders, in their mind, they deal with anxiety, trying to align their thoughts with God's truth. This can be a leadership tool. Your book and the way your format can be a leadership tool in times of decision making and conflict. I was just talking to a leader yesterday about conflict. It's just so, I mean it's just a natural, normal part of our lives to have to deal with that. How does that work? How does prayer work with the mind? The first thing that happens that I think needs to be at least dealt with here is that a lot of what people feel, what we've called anxiety and whatever, you know, a lot of that comes from self inflicted wounds. That's so true. A lot of that comes from what we focus on. Every Sunday morning, I think it's like nine o', clock, I get my weekly summary of iPhone time and it's depressing when you look at. And then especially if you break that down and go and see the apps. I mean, man, when you're scrolling four and five hours a day, doom scrolling, it's no wonder people are anxious. When we look at the real effects of what this does to our brain, the dopamine hits and the people that are dealing with things secretly that are from the age that we're living in, I think the first thing you need to know is you're not the only one that feels that anxiety. You're not the only one that feels those dark days. So you need to know you're not alone. There are other people that are feeling that and it's normal, bro. We can go through the scripture and see men like just how do you explain the prophet Elijah just kills 400 prophets of Baal and 400 prophets of the grove and gets word from one woman, Jezebel, that by this time tomorrow you're going to die. The dude just Single handedly put a thumping on false prophets by the hundreds and then gets a word from one woman, I'm going to kill you. I'm going to take you out. And what is his first response? I'm going to go isolate. Even, even some would argue, but I believe praying like suicidal thoughts. Lord, I wish I was dead. Yeah. And what changes the whole thing is the voice of God speaking to him, saying, you are not alone. I've got thousands that have never bowed a knee. There's 7,000 who have never bowed a knee. There's. And so knowing that you're not alone and doing your best not to stay alone in a prison of isolation, a cave of isolation, that's, that's majorly important and that's tougher for people that are introverted. You know, I'm, I'm very extroverted. I'm, I probably got some of the worst FOMO you've ever seen in your life. If it's happening, I want to be there. Yeah. But I do understand some people get into isolation very easy. Like that's the easiest thing for them to do. No doubt. We gotta lead our way, I think. Even if you don't mind me butting in there. No, not at all. The isolation, first of all, we've got to attach or bond or whatever with God, which is gonna help us help relieve some of that anxiety. It's gonna help flush our thoughts and our mind of some of the clutter that we would have. That's first and foremost. But I think that allows us, if we will seek him first in prayer and allow him to flush our minds, it allows us to be able to attach to people the way that he desires for us to attach to Him. I mean, it's all throughout scripture. We need God, but we need one another. And part of, part of depending on one another, part of allowing someone to bear my burdens, for instance, is relieving that anxiety and flushing my thoughts in my mind with the truth of God's word. But also just prayer in general. Would you agree? 100%. And it's how we're wired. That's literally how we're wired for five days. Everything God created, He, he said, let it be. Yeah. On the sixth day when he created man, he formed us with his hands. We were created by touch. We were the only part of creation that was created by touch of his hand. We are wired to need touch. We are wired to need each other. And so my, my personal prayer life predicates my response in a corporate culture of prayer which connects me and keeps me connected to the body of Christ. And when I'm touching and agreeing with you and I'm believing with you, it keeps me, number one, from always praying selfishly because I'm praying for you too. And it lets me know that somebody else has problems besides me. And man, it's just like. It's almost like God had a plan. It's almost like he knew what he was doing when he put the body together. Yeah, they're true. So this is a powerful thing in your book, talking about the burdens, bearing the right, Carrying the right burdens. And you talk about laying aside weights and praying over the shoulders. What does it mean for a leader to carry the right burdens and even release? And I wanna talk more about even the release of the ones that don't belong to them. Not everything I carry is meant to be permanent. And we talk so much among circles of leaders and preachers about being able to leave work at work and not bring it home. But the truth is, it's hard to say that you left that at work. When you're up pacing the floor at three o' clock in the morning, no doubt, and you're like, how's this going to happen? How are we going to get it done? How are we going to get that loan? How are we going to close it? How are we going to build a building? How are we going to start that business? Well, I think it's not just the things that we're aware of. I think it's even the things that we're unaware of that we're carrying on our shoulders as well. That's the truth. And I pray that when I'm praying over my shoulders that God would give me discernment, help me to discern, and. Emotional intelligence can do a lot of that, but it can't do it all. And that's why I'm really, really wanting to focus on why this is so important that we pick the right burdens, that we understand what's going on. And while we pray that the Lord would help relieve the wrong burdens from our shoulders. Amen. Well, I think that the danger of carrying weights and we don't have the time to fully jump into this, you know, but when the scripture said lay aside every weight and the sin, we get so focused on the sin. Yeah. That we forget the weight can just as easily beset us. And so the will of God for my life is that there's some things that I need to carry to keep the weight on me, to realize this is my kingdom responsibility. And then there's other things that I need to lay aside that are just keeping me from walking in my kingdom responsibility. And that's the daily grind, is the daily grind of help me walk in discernment, help me to know what's of you, help me to judge in that moment, God. And when somebody comes to me and tries to add weight to my shoulders, I need to know right then in the Holy Ghost, is this something I can take on or is this something that I need to reject? And you need to do that with kindness and you need to do it with sincerity. But not every, not everything. I don't know. I don't know if you've ever read the book about the law of the garbage truck. No, I haven't. It's old. I mean, it's old. I just. It's just funny. I just found it laying on my desk the other day. My daughter had borrowed it. But it's like the law of the garbage truck is that basically everyone has garbage. And sometimes you're the truck and sometimes you're the receptor and you have to choose what you let get dumped on you. And that's a big part of walking in discernment, Ryan. Yeah, and that is a very difficult thing as a pastor. I know as an assistant pastor, you know, as a senior pastor, to be able to walk through the daily duties of your job and know what to carry and what not to carry is so, so difficult. Only God can help us with that. So true. It is so true. So, you know, you've provided a deeply structured and practical model for our daily prayer. What's one? As we kind of bring this to a close, what's one first step that you would recommend to a leader who feels stuck or distant in their prayer life right now? They're just not connecting the way that they would like to, and they're not seeing the fruit that they desire in their life. What's a first step? You know the old John Maxwell statement about doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result. There's a reason why you feel stuck. There's a reason why you don't feel like you're getting results. And it's probably because you're trying to come at this the same way all the time. And so every now and then we just need a little fresh oil. We need a little fresh oil. And that may mean introducing several different things, whether it be a book like the Whole man or sitting down with somebody that, that praise a structured type prayer, whether tabernacle prayer, whatever. And trying something different. It could also be trying a different time. I'm very big on giving God first. He's a God of first. And Colossians says that he would have preeminence in all things. Even, like with our tithing. He doesn't just want 10%. He wants the first 10. He wants the first fruit. And so it would change your life if before you got up, faced any troubles, any problems, any bosses, any businesses, any frustrations, if you could give God first and spend some time with him in the morning. Now, this doesn't have to be four hours of prayer when you get up. Like, you don't have to start waking up at 2, because you normally woke up at 6. Yeah. But step back in the morning on your way to the coffee pot because God knows we all need it. But just. Just make an intentional place that you can have an intentional effort to get with God. Find your favorite chair, your favorite corner, something in your home. Yeah. And before you say, man, it's dark outside, it's raining outside, Just. Just take a minute, say, lord, this is the day that you have made. I will rejoice and be glad in it. And I thank you for your goodness. And I thank you for what you're going to do in my life today. I'm going to walk with you today. I'm going to spend time with you today. You order my steps. And I'm telling you it'll make a difference in your life when you spend time with him before you do anybody else. Yeah, I love that. And I have found that if I make it a routine, I do the same path to the same place, start the same thing. The more routine I make, doesn't become habitual. It actually just becomes a place where my mind kicks in gear, that I know I'm going to meet God in that time and that place. And it's so effective in my mind to do that as a first for sure. Amen. And I don't finish. Just for the record, I do pray first thing in the morning, just as you mentioned, but I also pray later in the morning. I have a time of structured prayer later, but I do pray briefly in the morning, first thing. Because I also agree that we need some first in the word of God and in our devotion with God. So true, man. Yeah. So as we close, just curious if there's anything else that you want to say, a closing word or anything about prayer or leadership or whatever you might would want to say. I just want to be an encouragement to somebody that you can do this, you can pray, you can seek God. Prayer is not a gift that God just gave to Anthony Mangan because he is so powerful. And, oh, he's writing the book on it. He is. But he didn't get that way by accident. That's true. You look at these mighty people, man, and you can either be jealous of what God does in their lives, or you can find out what they're doing and go get after it. And so I want to encourage people that if you'll just be intentional with God and you'll start making steps in the right direction. I know people have a hard time believing it, but if you'll pick up the Whole man, and I promise you, I'm not just trying to sell a book. That is not the point. But if you'll pick up the Whole man and you'll just start reading through that, if you'll read. Just read the prayers that are in it. I'm guessing it would take you probably 30 minutes if you just read the scripture. Prayers that are there. But don't worry about how big it feels. Don't worry about how long you're praying. Just pray. Just pray. Just drag yourself to the altar and pray every day. And I've had people come to me. Some of the coolest things that I've had is when people bring me a copy of my book they bought online or whatever, and they come to me, want me to sign it or whatever. And it's kind of tattered, and you can tell they've been praying it and they've been using it. And I've had people tell me, Brother St. Clair, I was praying the Whole man. And I looked down when I got up to walk out. I'd been praying for an hour and a half. They didn't go into the prayer room saying, I'm going to stay here an hour and a half. They just walked in, prayed and stayed with God until they and God were done. And it becomes a part of who you are and then you get addicted to it. That makes it all worth it. Also makes it worth it for you. All the time and energy that you put into this book. Because I know that's not easy. It's been worth it. It's incredible to see. Absolutely. And I just want to echo that. I encourage our listeners to go and purchase the Whole man if you need a kickstart, or if you just. If you don't need a kickstart, you may need one anyway. Go purchase the Whole man, get into it and watch the Lord Do a tremendous work in your devotion and your prayer life. I'll put a link in the show notes so that people can find it easily on. I know it's available on Amazon. Where else is it available? You can go to Truthbook Co. Truthbook Co. And there's a. A direct link that you can get it there, too. But it's such an honor to be with you, Ryan. Thank you for investing in us as leaders. Thank you for time that you spend with your podcast. You're a blessing to us, and I'm truly honored to be a part of it. Thank you for talking about the whole man with me. Yeah. I thank you so much for joining us, Pastor Luke. I know you're busy, and I greatly appreciate your time today. And if people want to. If they're reading their book and they just want to connect with you online in some way, where can they find you? On social media or. Yes, I'm on social media on Instagram and Facebook. My Facebook stays stacked up all the time on the personal page, but I have a ministry page. Luke St. Clair, St. Period Claire. Okay. And then Luke, underscore St. Clair on Instagram. I'll put links in the show notes. People will be able to find it easily. Yeah, Just reach out to us and let us know how God's working in your life. That makes it all worthwhile when we hear what God's doing through people's prayer lives. Because you are making a difference. You're making a difference. Absolutely. Thanks again for your time. Yes, sir. Lord bless you, Ryan. And so this concludes our show today. My name is Ryan Franklin. Thank you so much for joining us on the Christian Leader Made simple podcast.


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