The Best Marriage Advice You Won’t Hear in Premarital Counseling | Dr. Carl Wilson
- Ryan Franklin
- 23 hours ago
- 10 min read
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In this powerful episode, Ryan sits down with Dr. Carl Wilson to unpack his popular lesson, Fighting Fair in Love and Relationships. Whether you're navigating marriage, ministry, or leadership, these 10 steps to handling conflict can transform the way you communicate. From taking it private to keeping it real, from listening to understanding to knowing when to walk away—Dr. Wilson brings wisdom, vulnerability, and practical insight rooted in both science and scripture. Don’t miss this fast-paced, honest conversation that could radically improve your relationships and leadership effectiveness.
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Transcript
Keep the facts. The facts is what you do. Know what you want before you go into an argument. That way, when you've accomplished, you reach your goal. You can know when to be quiet, you can know when to stop talking, you can know when to stop pushing an issue. But many a times we sort of do what I call hip pocket fighting. We just, it's anything trivial, we just start talking about it and we have those deep, meaningful conversations. A lot of times in the most inappropriate places, not the most healthiest times of the day, do we do that. And then those are just triggers is what they become.
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So leaders, I know just how frustrating it can feel when you're in the weeds of work or ministry and life is chaotic. You're struggling to feel effective and you're just not enjoying leadership as much as you could be. And so to help you, after many years of leadership and executive coaching, I've developed a framework called the Christian Leader Blueprint that'll guide you to find clarity in your life and leadership. It'll help you gain a better rhythm of life, it'll help you see yourself more clearly to leverage your strengths, and you'll produce more productive relationships.
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And now let's get to our session.
Welcome back to the Christian Leader Made Simple show. Today we're diving into a topic that hits every relationship at some point: the subject of conflict. But what if conflict didn't have to be destructive? What if we could actually learn how to fight fair? My guest today has spent decades helping couples, families and individuals navigate through tough conversations with grace and wisdom and with biblical grounding. And whether you're a pastor, a leader, or just trying to love well in your own relationships, this conversation is for you.
Our guest today is Dr. Carl Wilson. Dr. Wilson is the CEO of Covenant Behavioral Health and Covenant Educational Center. He holds a doctorate in behavioral health and is a licensed professional clinical counselor specializing in military trauma, PTSD, substance abuse, and much more.
Dr. Wilson is a sought-after presenter on wellness, anger management and relationships, sharing his expertise with organizations like Disney and JPMorgan Chase. He is also an ordained minister in the United Pentecostal Church and serves as the family pastor at his local church.
Dr. Wilson has a ton of knowledge and practical resources for improving interpersonal dynamics.
So, Dr. Wilson, I am very excited to dig into this with you. Welcome to the show.
Thank you.
Thank you for having me, Sarah.
Yeah, I appreciate you taking your valuable time to unpack this tremendous subject.
So you taught a lesson that I heard on YouTube. A friend of mine actually sent it to me and said, "Hey, you got to listen to this by Dr. Wilson." And I said okay I'll listen to it—and I did. It was called Fighting Fear and Love in Relationships. And I was blown away at how practical yet solid the concepts were.
In fact, I made a note of it; I kept the link on YouTube; and in my premarital sessions with couples at our church, I'll definitely be sending that out for them to listen to it because it's that good.
Good.
Yeah.
So I know that this applies obviously to marriages but it's also great for general leadership too; so I asked you here today to unpack these 10 things—you know we'll have to move kind of quickly to get all 10 in—but would you be okay with trying?
Let's do it! Let's try!
All right.
Before we get into these 10 steps though—and sort of speed this up—I want us kind of slow down a little bit first: why are you so passionate about this topic? Do you have any personal pain points related to this that made you passionate about it?
Well, I certainly believe that for most of us—I’ll even say none of us—are born with natural propensity for doing things right immediately; often through trial and error we learn and grow.
For me personally many techniques we'll discuss are very close; these are growing pains from myself over time—I like to think I'm doing them better than 30 years ago when I first got married—and we've really tried expanding these as core principles for helping people improve relationship quality.
My philosophy is if you practice these techniques you'll improve relationship quality whether family members or friends or social or workplace settings alike.
Yeah.
In your earlier years of marriage did it go well? You mentioned nobody has this right naturally—how did it go with you?
I was certainly what you'd call naturally a dirty fighter; most people are—the goal was always winning; if I'm hurt or wounded then hurt people hurt people—that's pathology where wounded folks want others wounded equally or worse than themselves.
Yeah—and being military probably adds complexity; plus being natural leader adds competitive nature—would that add complication for fighting fair versus dirty fighting?
Definitely influences how one handles situations—especially sales where goal is convincing others; leadership involves influencing behavior/thoughts—usually getting people seeing things your way—but fighting fair means different stance: goal is having people feel heard & validated when communicating feelings/thoughts—not necessarily convincing them your way—which was huge paradigm shift for me—not born naturally with propensity but now much better hopefully wife & kids would agree—that’s true testament seeing unguarded behavior naturally—in habitat—so I'd believe I'm better than 10-20-30 years ago regarding fighting fair.
Yeah—we recently had privilege sharing meal together in Louisiana during district conference teaching—your wife & my wife were there—and witnessed firsthand how something came up—you slid into techniques used healthily working through issues—because this stuff applies not just leadership but marriage/kids daily grind—things come up regularly living & interacting with people—
Go ahead.
I’m listening—the first thing comes mind: some say they've never argued or fought with spouse ever—that saddens me because either they're lying or miserable or someone's dominating other side if that's true—because we all argue/debate—it’s normal especially debate classes aiming winning arguments—fighting with words—that's healthy fighting—not physical fight—and shouldn't be ashamed or afraid talking about it—
Exactly—that creates healthy relationship whether spouse/kids—I think about my kids—I don’t want tyrant dad where whatever dad says goes—I want interaction/opinions/thoughts properly & healthily—even Bible says iron sharpens iron—we bring best out each other but also worst especially close proximity living together—
Listening now makes me think: be open/honest/transparent before Lord means also being open/honest/transparent before loved ones/care about—even coworkers/life partners—to build closeness—we fight expressing ourselves wanting heard/validated—that shows love/care—
That’s love & relationship for sure—
So you've outlined 10 things helping keep healthy fighting fair—starting with first one: take conflict private & keep private—which seems opposite what just said but will understand fully later—you emphasized especially around children keeping conflict private mostly—why critical starting point? What long term impact when not private?
When talking keeping private means fight should happen privately—not front family/friends—but if children present only if emotions regulated because need model good behavior—for kids can't separate fight between parents if ugly/mean/nasty—they internalize hurting psychological development—we learn by watching adults so teach right way not wrong—
Yeah—for office setting too—even if alt with colleague why talk privately first?
Bible teaches Matthew 18: take problem privately first try resolve before going public—goal modeling good behavior showing healthy conflict without destroying relationships—conflict gives opportunity grow deeper relationships—modeling good behavior improves morale among others—we do public fights right but only when controlled—not self control then keep private—
As leader modeling conflict management applies both home & office—
Absolutely—
Number two: say what mean & mean what say—why struggle being honest about feelings?
People generally not inherently evil/bad—not wanting hurt feelings so avoid truth but harbor internal wounds causing physical/psychological harm—not saying truth leaves partner blind unaware wounds causing passive aggressive behavior which is hardest dynamic dealing with—
Right—a lot compassionate loving coached struggle telling truth leading passive aggression undermining covertly—
There are four communication forms:
Aggressive communicator yells/screams dominates;
Passive aggressive communicator doesn’t tell true feelings but undermines covertly;
Passive communicator keeps all inside leading physical/psychological issues;
Assertive communication ultimate style modeled by Jesus telling truth respectfully not intending hurt feelings though sometimes unavoidable consequences;
We must keep real while caring not hurting intentionally—
Number three: keep relevant—you said if fight’s about mayo keep it about mayo not mama mourning or past events—don’t bring grudges/sore points unrelated else fight drifts losing focus accomplishing nothing—
Why drift? How better deal unresolved hurts?
Bringing grudges indicates unresolved issues still raw triggered easily by sensory memories reliving pain repeatedly—to manage unresolved issues needing third party help because alone often impossible resolving old wounds—that's why counseling important—as no one born perfect learned over time growth takes effort & education mastering one technique at time improving incrementally like 1% ladder daily progress building mastery over time—
Number four: avoid character assassination—a fight can go south fast when feeling attacked triggering defenses causing name calling worse even physical fights—
Explain character assassination example & how avoid under high emotions?
When care about person we want validation but offense hijacks rational brain moving emotional brain triggering fight-flight-freeze instinctive defense seeking hurt back targeting vulnerabilities like parents causing gloves off escalation leading name calling/physicality which damages relationship badly—
Avoid by acknowledging emotional hijack then pause conversation allowing reset calming down before continuing—with written notes keeping focus avoiding drifting off track focusing task-oriented discussion prevents attack spirals keeping rational mindset instead emotional reactive state—
If emotions high mid-fight how act?
Best practice write notes pre-fight; mid-fight use safe word signaling pause/end conversation removing fuel from fire—but important return later resolving issue as avoiding only prolongs problem; recognize signs like dilated pupils indicating emotional overload needing break preventing regretful words/actions—
Number five: remain task oriented writing down points staying focused helps stay grounded present avoiding emotional hijacking keeping logical part active preventing character attacks focusing on goals knowing when stop pushing knowing when quiet avoiding hip pocket trivial fights which become triggers repeated in wrong contexts leading escalating tension—
Number six: allow retreat with dignity recognizing different apology styles important—not all say sorry same way nor same words men/women differ often men show sorry via actions rather than words like fixing things or chores showing repentance through behavior change indicating true remorse rather than empty apologies needing understanding partner’s apology language for closure building trust & healing relationships properly respecting individual differences avoids forcing own expectations causing further conflict—
Number seven: give face-saving way out letting people retreat maintaining dignity avoiding making opponent lose face just so winner feels victorious—is empathy validating hearing without agreeing showing understanding reducing stress/anxiety enabling peaceful disengagement from conflict without humiliation fostering mutual respect—is similar active listening using OARS method (open-ended questions affirmations reflections summaries) ensuring clear understanding reducing misunderstandings improving communication flow allowing graceful exits preserving relationships while leaving door open for future dialogue…
Number eight: set time limit on fighting limit fights ideally under hour preferably under 30 minutes if poor skills avoid prolonged arguments exhausting energy diminishing returns scientifically supported by circadian rhythms advising no fights after sunset aligning biological restoration encouraging sleep preventing emotional exhaustion enabling fresh perspectives next day facilitating healthier resolutions sometimes multiple conversations needed repeating points differently aiding aha moments requiring patience extending grace remembering difficult behavior change takes time effort outside help sometimes necessary…
Number nine: listen to understand not respond presence essential slowing brain processing focusing on genuinely hearing partner’s full thoughts/emotions rather than preparing rebuttal active listening containing emotions reducing cortisol levels calming stress hormones enabling constructive dialogue requires maturity practice separating person from behavior focusing on issues loving caring partners approach conflicts as growth opportunities avoiding personal attacks maintaining compassionate stance promotes healthier interactions enhancing relational nutrient containment crucial foundation…
Number ten: be proportional in intensity not every conflict needs World War Three reaction right angry acceptable but yelling screaming breaking things hitting unacceptable controlling anger choosing battles wisely asking self “Is this hill worth dying on?” enables letting go minor irritations preserving energy for significant issues maintaining peace promoting long-term harmony prioritizing relationship over winning fostering partnership rather than competition recognizing joint victory benefits whole family/team…
To recap:
1) Take it private & keep private
2) Keep it real
3) Keep it relevant
4) Avoid character assassination
5) Remain task oriented
6) Allow retreat with dignity
7) Give face-saving way out
8) Set time limit on fighting
9) Listen to understand not respond
10) Be proportional in intensity
Dr. Wilson how can church leaders apply these principles improving leadership effectiveness culture churches/businesses?
Model desired behaviors even alone focus issue not person remember people ≠ behaviors use “I” statements avoid finger pointing maintain presence focus present avoid past grievances practice active listening repeat clarify reflect seek resolution agree boundaries respect rules calm moments prepare ground rules prevent unfair surprises improve communication foster grace empathy partnership remembering relationships complex require patience effort…
Thank you Dr Wilson for investing time sharing wisdom practical tools helping listeners transform relationships grow leadership effectiveness enjoy journey…
This concludes our show today; my name is Ryan Franklin thank you so much for joining us on Christian Leader Made Simple podcast.
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